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Ellen Forsyth transcript
Note this talk was to have been given by JP Pocaro, he will now be presenting as part of this series in 2011.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Hello and welcome to this talk. My name is Ellen Forsyth and I work at the State Library of New South Wales. I would like to acknowledge all the traditional owners of the land. Today is the last talk in this series of occasional talks for this year. Lots of people have been looking at the transcripts of the earlier talks. Thanks to Jackslack and Variel for this great resource. The speaker today was going to be JP Pocaro who is one of the founding bloggers on 8bitlibrary.com. However he has to give his apologies. I will be rescheduling him to speak in the second half of next year as he is still very keen to talk in this environment. The idea for the seminar which was held in June came from thinking about how imaginative ways could be used to help home bound library readers. I think this area of service will change as e-books continue to advance and develop, and that leaves the question of social interaction for people who are physically isolated, but have a computer and a fast internet connection.
What can the library do to help? Reading group discussions could take place in mmogs, such as World of Warcraft, Lord of the rings online, City of heroes and villains…the list goes on an on. Participants could agree on the location and time, and use the existing chat function to have the discussion, or they could use voice discussion, and we will be trying in this as part of the January session It may be that people have a reading group toon, just like all of you here now have a library seminar toon. It is no different. This kind of discussion could be a collaboration between libraries as at present no one library may have the population required to do this There are numerous places people could meet with many inns, ships, and other places where there are rooms which can just be used without having to ask permission and mostly without having to fight anyone. This would make library based reading groups accessible to a wide range of people who currently can’t access them. But this is not just for people who are homebound through infirmity. It would also be great for people who have family commitments.. it means that you can go to a reading group without having to tidy the house or wake your baby. A comment like this was made in a recent survey I did about reading and games and the person appreciated being able to interact with other people without having it become a performance. So there are great possibilities for a multigenerational reading group discussion to take place. You could even explore the reading available in this game as a starting point for discussions of writing about history, war, mythology, or you might discuss the latest Jennifer Crusie novel instead. There are also many ingame illusions to writing as well. For example Earnest Hemmingway is immortalised as Hemet Nesingwary, and Lewis Carrol’s work is referenced extensively in part of Northrend. There are just a couple of examples of how in game reading and writing examples may be triggers for a reading discussion as well. There are also lots of film illusions within the game as well, but the game may just be the environment - a slightly more interactive form of instant messaging
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph): I think libraries might also have a role to play in teaching people how to navigate in these types of immersive environments (simple stuff like how to move / talk / navigate)
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): yes - like the Arkansas library providing training session and this is a tough time for new players with so many changes coming online
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph): It reminds me of how many libraries offered internet tutorials for the general public in the 1990's - people were keen but needed help to get started.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Using a games interface will appeal to people, whatever their age, who like games or it may depend on the topic which is being discussed at the time.
Maxwelig: what other online changes are you referring too?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): mainly the in game changes for example toons not always being where you left them but also other games like Lord of the rings online have become free - so that provides an opportunity for discovery as well. Do you know how many of your housebound readers play games? Or do you know what that statistic is likely to look like in even five years time? Did you know that women over the age of 25 play the most pc based games or that 7% of 55 - 64 year old people play Playstation3? now 7% may not seem like much, but that is just one kind of game and as more people who play games grow older that number is only going to increase
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph): Housebound readers are likely to become much more diverse in coming years - as an industry we've been stereotyping them a bit as 85 years + with no experience using computers .... that WILL CHANGE!
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):yes - more and more homebound people will be using e-books and doing their own downloads so the challenge will be to provide the community engagement, social inclusion and one method, and it should not be the only one,could be through online interaction with home bound readers.There are also possibilities for linking other readers advisory work to games. In Australian public libraries people may be asked what else have they read recently as a way of finding about other titles to possibly suggest. I think it is a good idea to also ask about watching and playing as this also informs the suggestions for reading.
I like the Nancy Pearl reading doorways of character, language, setting and story. Have all of you heard of those? I did a survey recently asking people who played games and read to tell me about their playing and reading, what did they like and why. The same themes came through. All but 2% of the survey respondents read and play through the same doorways.
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph):Yes, doorways will help library staff understand better what a client likes and why they like it.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):and they can do this without actually using the doorways term -as it really is staff shorthand
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph): I asked some authors if they were conscious of writing with an emphasis on doorways ... they were a bit startled by the idea but agreed they probably did.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):yes - that is an interesting thing to have done. Don’t think this means that people are really limited in their reading and playing as each person interprets doorways in their own way … just to make it fun. What was interesting is that character, story and setting, in different combinations were very strong doorways for most people who responded to my survey, and language only featured in a few replies. Another interesting element was that character came through as being important in a slightly different way in games as some people would play games they did not really like because of the people they played with, others it really was all about the people and not the game. So I am suggesting that when helping readers they are asked about what they read, watch and play to help in library staff being able to make suggestions. It makes it easier for library staff - and just like you won't have read/watched everything, you don't need to have played every game either.
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph):: Is language the more 'literary' stuff ... worthy but perhaps not as popular because it takes more effort to read?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): "literary" fiction tends to have language doorway as dominant and most book prizes focus on this element as well.
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph):: Is there a 'language' doorway in games that would give us a clue people are likely prefer this type of thing?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):: it is a bit tougher in games, for the language area - word games are mostly in that group and some other games which have lots of reading (as you have to make the reading interesting to force people to read and not play - but I have to do a bit more work in this area
Maxwelig: is the language doorway in games the backstory/ background?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):: it can be the backstory, and there would be elements of setting and character in this as well, but yes the backstory would be part of the language focus, thanks for that - I have said elsewhere that Assassins creed 2 and The five greatest warriors by Matthew Reilly have very similar appeal characteristics. I want to encourage people to think about titles which connect different style, for example Halo, titles by Matthew Reilly, Alastair Reynolds. Robert Louis Stephenson and John Buchan may all connect to the same readers and players as they all have strong doorways of story and character, with setting being important as well. Since we are in this game, which has strong elements of story, character and setting, what are some reading suggestions you may make? for those different areas
Maxwelig: Halo has actually been described as modern gothic lit, along with some other games
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):: and with a really big backstory language as well so there are strong ties from game to read. I read an amazing description of why someone played Halo (I have not had the opportunity yet) and they likened it to opera as well because of the big story(as well as the dramatic music)
Maxwelig: Steven Erikson
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):: and they can just be starting points for talking with your readers Maxwelig: Eriksons language and writing style is more advanced which matches (language doorway)...sounds good, and even if you don't know the game you can ask someone to tell you about it and why they like it, just as you can ask for the explanation about books. I am trying to find librarie who are extending into machinima progamming as well Games also have a lot of potential for encouraging other content creation as well, such as creative writing, similar to come of the creative writing coming out of the games of dungeons and dragons. Any questions?
Maxwelig: can you please explain, is this like cosplay with in game creation
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): it is - it is using a game to create some other creative work - lot of music videos in this genre, but also some clever story telling as well, sometimes drawing out a story from the game other times creating a new story - it is an interesting area - I will add some links in the transcript so you can have a look. [Note you can see some examples of machinima here, here, here and here.
Maxwelig: Neverwinter nights has dungeon builder modules
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): the dungeon builder would be in that clustering as it creating new areas from existing. [In January] we will also be having a reading discussion (to see how IM works for this). The Summer reading program, with the theme, Scare up a good book, happening in public libraries it would be a great tie with the soon to appear Worgan toons and you may even want to bring a new toon along and come as a Worgen. So in January come along ready to discuss how your library is using games and for a discussion of scary books.
Maxwelig: we might be able to do that Franticread: that would be great - it would be nice to see all of you again. Speakers next year include Beth Galloway, Landon K Pirius and Gill Creel and I have just had an Australian academic doing research into games and literacy confirmed.
You can find out more about readers advisory services for older adults (including ideas using games), and readers advisory and games.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Hello and welcome to this talk. My name is Ellen Forsyth and I work at the State Library of New South Wales. I would like to acknowledge all the traditional owners of the land. Today is the last talk in this series of occasional talks for this year. Lots of people have been looking at the transcripts of the earlier talks. Thanks to Jackslack and Variel for this great resource. The speaker today was going to be JP Pocaro who is one of the founding bloggers on 8bitlibrary.com. However he has to give his apologies. I will be rescheduling him to speak in the second half of next year as he is still very keen to talk in this environment. The idea for the seminar which was held in June came from thinking about how imaginative ways could be used to help home bound library readers. I think this area of service will change as e-books continue to advance and develop, and that leaves the question of social interaction for people who are physically isolated, but have a computer and a fast internet connection.
What can the library do to help? Reading group discussions could take place in mmogs, such as World of Warcraft, Lord of the rings online, City of heroes and villains…the list goes on an on. Participants could agree on the location and time, and use the existing chat function to have the discussion, or they could use voice discussion, and we will be trying in this as part of the January session It may be that people have a reading group toon, just like all of you here now have a library seminar toon. It is no different. This kind of discussion could be a collaboration between libraries as at present no one library may have the population required to do this There are numerous places people could meet with many inns, ships, and other places where there are rooms which can just be used without having to ask permission and mostly without having to fight anyone. This would make library based reading groups accessible to a wide range of people who currently can’t access them. But this is not just for people who are homebound through infirmity. It would also be great for people who have family commitments.. it means that you can go to a reading group without having to tidy the house or wake your baby. A comment like this was made in a recent survey I did about reading and games and the person appreciated being able to interact with other people without having it become a performance. So there are great possibilities for a multigenerational reading group discussion to take place. You could even explore the reading available in this game as a starting point for discussions of writing about history, war, mythology, or you might discuss the latest Jennifer Crusie novel instead. There are also many ingame illusions to writing as well. For example Earnest Hemmingway is immortalised as Hemet Nesingwary, and Lewis Carrol’s work is referenced extensively in part of Northrend. There are just a couple of examples of how in game reading and writing examples may be triggers for a reading discussion as well. There are also lots of film illusions within the game as well, but the game may just be the environment - a slightly more interactive form of instant messaging
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph): I think libraries might also have a role to play in teaching people how to navigate in these types of immersive environments (simple stuff like how to move / talk / navigate)
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): yes - like the Arkansas library providing training session and this is a tough time for new players with so many changes coming online
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph): It reminds me of how many libraries offered internet tutorials for the general public in the 1990's - people were keen but needed help to get started.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Using a games interface will appeal to people, whatever their age, who like games or it may depend on the topic which is being discussed at the time.
Maxwelig: what other online changes are you referring too?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): mainly the in game changes for example toons not always being where you left them but also other games like Lord of the rings online have become free - so that provides an opportunity for discovery as well. Do you know how many of your housebound readers play games? Or do you know what that statistic is likely to look like in even five years time? Did you know that women over the age of 25 play the most pc based games or that 7% of 55 - 64 year old people play Playstation3? now 7% may not seem like much, but that is just one kind of game and as more people who play games grow older that number is only going to increase
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph): Housebound readers are likely to become much more diverse in coming years - as an industry we've been stereotyping them a bit as 85 years + with no experience using computers .... that WILL CHANGE!
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):yes - more and more homebound people will be using e-books and doing their own downloads so the challenge will be to provide the community engagement, social inclusion and one method, and it should not be the only one,could be through online interaction with home bound readers.There are also possibilities for linking other readers advisory work to games. In Australian public libraries people may be asked what else have they read recently as a way of finding about other titles to possibly suggest. I think it is a good idea to also ask about watching and playing as this also informs the suggestions for reading.
I like the Nancy Pearl reading doorways of character, language, setting and story. Have all of you heard of those? I did a survey recently asking people who played games and read to tell me about their playing and reading, what did they like and why. The same themes came through. All but 2% of the survey respondents read and play through the same doorways.
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph):Yes, doorways will help library staff understand better what a client likes and why they like it.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):and they can do this without actually using the doorways term -as it really is staff shorthand
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph): I asked some authors if they were conscious of writing with an emphasis on doorways ... they were a bit startled by the idea but agreed they probably did.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):yes - that is an interesting thing to have done. Don’t think this means that people are really limited in their reading and playing as each person interprets doorways in their own way … just to make it fun. What was interesting is that character, story and setting, in different combinations were very strong doorways for most people who responded to my survey, and language only featured in a few replies. Another interesting element was that character came through as being important in a slightly different way in games as some people would play games they did not really like because of the people they played with, others it really was all about the people and not the game. So I am suggesting that when helping readers they are asked about what they read, watch and play to help in library staff being able to make suggestions. It makes it easier for library staff - and just like you won't have read/watched everything, you don't need to have played every game either.
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph):: Is language the more 'literary' stuff ... worthy but perhaps not as popular because it takes more effort to read?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): "literary" fiction tends to have language doorway as dominant and most book prizes focus on this element as well.
Stefwynn: (Mylee Joseph):: Is there a 'language' doorway in games that would give us a clue people are likely prefer this type of thing?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):: it is a bit tougher in games, for the language area - word games are mostly in that group and some other games which have lots of reading (as you have to make the reading interesting to force people to read and not play - but I have to do a bit more work in this area
Maxwelig: is the language doorway in games the backstory/ background?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):: it can be the backstory, and there would be elements of setting and character in this as well, but yes the backstory would be part of the language focus, thanks for that - I have said elsewhere that Assassins creed 2 and The five greatest warriors by Matthew Reilly have very similar appeal characteristics. I want to encourage people to think about titles which connect different style, for example Halo, titles by Matthew Reilly, Alastair Reynolds. Robert Louis Stephenson and John Buchan may all connect to the same readers and players as they all have strong doorways of story and character, with setting being important as well. Since we are in this game, which has strong elements of story, character and setting, what are some reading suggestions you may make? for those different areas
Maxwelig: Halo has actually been described as modern gothic lit, along with some other games
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):: and with a really big backstory language as well so there are strong ties from game to read. I read an amazing description of why someone played Halo (I have not had the opportunity yet) and they likened it to opera as well because of the big story(as well as the dramatic music)
Maxwelig: Steven Erikson
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth):: and they can just be starting points for talking with your readers Maxwelig: Eriksons language and writing style is more advanced which matches (language doorway)...sounds good, and even if you don't know the game you can ask someone to tell you about it and why they like it, just as you can ask for the explanation about books. I am trying to find librarie who are extending into machinima progamming as well Games also have a lot of potential for encouraging other content creation as well, such as creative writing, similar to come of the creative writing coming out of the games of dungeons and dragons. Any questions?
Maxwelig: can you please explain, is this like cosplay with in game creation
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): it is - it is using a game to create some other creative work - lot of music videos in this genre, but also some clever story telling as well, sometimes drawing out a story from the game other times creating a new story - it is an interesting area - I will add some links in the transcript so you can have a look. [Note you can see some examples of machinima here, here, here and here.
Maxwelig: Neverwinter nights has dungeon builder modules
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): the dungeon builder would be in that clustering as it creating new areas from existing. [In January] we will also be having a reading discussion (to see how IM works for this). The Summer reading program, with the theme, Scare up a good book, happening in public libraries it would be a great tie with the soon to appear Worgan toons and you may even want to bring a new toon along and come as a Worgen. So in January come along ready to discuss how your library is using games and for a discussion of scary books.
Maxwelig: we might be able to do that Franticread: that would be great - it would be nice to see all of you again. Speakers next year include Beth Galloway, Landon K Pirius and Gill Creel and I have just had an Australian academic doing research into games and literacy confirmed.
You can find out more about readers advisory services for older adults (including ideas using games), and readers advisory and games.
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