4 November 9.30am (Australian Eastern Daylight Time) Justin Hoenke, a teen librarian in Maine, who blogs at 8bitlibrary, talked about his ideas for games and libraries. You can follow him on twitter.

Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Hello and welcome to this talk. My name is Ellen Forsyth and I work at the State Library of New South Wales‚ I would like to acknowledge all the traditional owners of the land. Today is the third in the occasional talks series. Lots of people have been looking at the transcript of the talks Shawn McCann and Craig Anderson gave a while back. Really big thanks to Jackslack and Variel for this great resource. The speaker today is Justin Hoenke who is one of the founding bloggers on 8bitlibrary.com. He writes about libraries and games, and is a young adult librarian in Portland, Maine. He tweets @justinlibrarian. Justin definitely has a deep approach to being a librarian‚ as he has at least one tattoo on his arm to show that he is branded a librarian. I have had a couple of very enjoyable chats with Justin organising today's talk. I am really looking forward to what he has to discuss with us today, over to you Justin / Searcher!

Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Hi everyone! Thanks for inviting me to this talk Ellen! I got admit this is all new to me, so please be patient, but I'm gonna talk about video games in libraries, specifically developing a collection of games for your patrons to borrow Are a lot of libraries in Australia circulating games?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): We have legal issues with this, but collecting for the library would have the same broad approaches.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): It is a growing trend here in the USA. I've worked at 2 libraries in the last 3 years and I've been responsible for starting up two brand new collections. For us over here, it is mostly a money issue. Lots of libraries budgets are being cut drastically that adding a new media to the collection is... well... people think you are nuts! What are the legal issues for you?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): It is not legal to lend video games.
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): Nor movies, technically.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): That's very interesting if that's the case for you.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): But developing a collection for use in the library would have a aimilar approach.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): So you could play games within the library, just not lend them out?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Yes.

Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Very interesting. My basic point with video game collections, and the thing I emphasize to everyone when I present is simple (and be warned, I use caps lock for this!). GIVE THE PUBLIC WHAT THEY WANT. I see my role as the public librarian to be more of a collector of information which I then process and use to develop collections for the community. And I think this approach would work for your libraries as well. Listen to your users closely. If they're requesting the silliest game in the world and you get it for them, you're showing that you care for them. And for libraries to survive, this is something we can use to maintain our relevance... simple one on one human interaction. Phew, I'm talking a lot. Feel free to chime in if you have questions or comments. I'm curious to hear more about your libraries.

Nairarbil (Sean Riley): I have a question.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Shoot!
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): How do you include the notion of community standards in collection development for games?
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): By notion of community standards, do you mean like video game ratings, etc? I hope I am understanding this correctly.
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): More generally. The notion that certain people may find content offensive, and since video games don't (yet) have the cultural cachet of books or films, they're harder to defend, I'd imagine.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): You really have to see the community for what it is... an extremely diverse group of people. And yes, they are harder to defend. That's exactly one of the main reasons why JP and I started 8BitLibrary.com. To be honest, we were very tired about hearing people talk about games, (Like Grand Theft Auto, etc) as garbage. OK, games do have some violence, but there's so rich in story. It takes a lot to make a video game: Programming, artwork, storytelling. It's really a big mix of media. Something that takes a lot of talent to create.
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): No disputes from me; I love games. But it's certainly a hazard for collecting the form. (For the moment.)
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): So what I try to emphasize to the community is this: you have a choice. You can check out these games or not. You don't have to rent this Mature rated game. But that person over there may want this, and it is our job to give it to them without bias. It is very tough to collect video games. Everything is changing so much. I sunk about $20,000 to get a collection started at my old library and while it was a very good investment. (They didn't stay on the shelves, people loved them!) It was tough knowing that soon things will be moving towards digital. That's why I follow the eBook conversation so closely and I urge all librarians to do so... what they're talking about is what we'll be talking about in a few years when games go digital! Are there troubles with content in your libraries with video games/movies?
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Most public libraries end to avoid MA ratings for playing in public spaces. (MA is kind of 15+.)
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): I can understand the MA thing for public spaces. We played Halo at our game nights and all it took was one parent to complain about it. We still played it but it then required a parental permission form.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): At least you found a work around.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): It was a big hassle, but it was still important for us to have this game because people wanted it. I find that the almighty "parental permission form" works so well when you're dealing with teens. A lot of parents will agree to things without them, but it's nice to have it to cover your butt. Haha!

Searcher (Justin Hoeke): I just see that Ellen tweeted about board games. SOrry I didn't mention that! But that's the same thing. (I'm not a big board gamer myself so I often times forget this excellent aspect of gaming!)

Nairarbil (Sean Riley): I have a question actually, about the legal aspects and the online digital space. If games are going to online streaming digital, does that mean libraries who offer them will find themselves in the firing line from streaming game rental services like OnLive?
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): I believe so.
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): That's a legal battle and a half.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): It's going to be like the battle libraries are fighting with Netflix (a popular movie rental service/streaming service here in the USA) Technically, us using their services violates some kind of... um I'm at a loss for the word... legal thing! The idea of sharing (books/movies/games) has always been something that companies want to avoid. They just see it as money lost. But I think we have to be advocates that sharing actually lends to more purchases! I used this example today in my library: I would never buy the Nintendo Wii game Dragon Quest Swords... it's just not my thing. But I'm gonna borrow it from my library and who knows... I may like it and buy it! Publishers and companies need to see libraries as their glorified product testers. All these rumbles are super neat! We're a good gauge for how well a game/book/movie may perform in the market
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Yes - just like people buy books they want to keep after discovering them at the library.
Dizwalt: You can even look at World of Warcraft; I'm sure many people started with the free 10 day trial and then got hooked.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Exactly! I never have tried World of Warcraft but this 10 day trial is blowing my mind. It makes me want to investigate more... something I wouldn't have done before. For gaming especially, libraries can be like the modern day arcade and the time is now to act and try this.
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): The real issue is control. Companies, understandably, don't like giving it up, and as libraries, we kind of have to insist they do.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): You're on the ball Nairarbil... companies don't want to give up control.
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): Which makes sense. Who would?
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): So attempting to engage them in healthy conversation is something we should be doing. They most likely see us as the librarian stereotype: older, boring, lots of cats, bookish and are they wrong. We all know we're not that! If we destroy the stereotype and present what we do and what we offer to the public (and their profits!) That opens up dialogue. This is extremely important. I see it like this: we can sit back and let it all happen, or we can blog/tweet/advocate as much as we can about it and try to change things.
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): Here's a crazy suggestion: Should ALA be negotiating with games industry bodies to negotiate a X-days after release style agreement?
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): I like this suggestion a lot! I know ALA is doing all that they can to work with game developers but here's the thing: Those organizational attempts can only go so far. And a lot of legwork needs to be done on the local, grassroots level. Being out there everyday as advocates. Rallying your community around your cause. When I speak with my patrons about lending video games, I urge them write letters to these video game companies talking about how important the library's role is with discovering new games. I don't know how many folks do this, but if we at least get one person that's better than zero, right? And phew! I hope my feel good rallying is making sense! My son woke me up at 5:15am today!
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): You are going really well - and bringing some great ideas together.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Why thank you!

Searcher (Justin Hoeke): So I guess my summary is sort of like this: We all have a passion for libraries and we have a passion for gaming. Heck, we're meeting in World of Warcraft to talk about both! So what do we do? We channel that passion to our communities. We show them that we care about all forms of media and care about what they want! If we don't, we end up useless, out of date, and eventually out of funding. Are there any questions? I will be happy to address any specific points or questions!
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Thanks so much for this.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Anytime, this has been such a blast for me! So eye opening!

Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): What are the biggest surprises you have had in the games clients have suggested?
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): I'll give you a specific example: I had someone ask about this Disney Princess game. They really wanted to play it with their child. I have to admit, I knew the game was sort of crap. But I purchased it anyway for the patron. It was only $20. And it became one of the biggest circulating games in the library. It showed me this: I KNOW NOTHING!
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): No — it just highlights different tastes; and you did buy it. Which is the critical thing.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): I also found out that most people don't really care about MA/Mature games. Collection Developmemnt doesn't take a master's degree in Library Science to figure out. It just takes a good ear! You just have to listen.

Nairarbil (Sean Riley): It highlights one of the great library questions though. Is our purpose to educate the community -- by exposing them to great works they'd otherwise not have seen -- or deliver what they want? Are we educators, or populists? Or both?
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Great point Nairarbil. I think we are a bit of both, but more and more I feel like a facilitator when it comes to media and an educator when it comes to technology. I think they weave in and out of each other at times and overlap. Being everything and anything is what we must be!

Nairarbil (Sean Riley): OK, I have one more question.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Excellent!
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): It's a standard of mine: Justify our existence. Why, in the age of the internet as a global library, and easier than ever information finding, are librarians even needed? (It's a question I think we seriously think about way too little, but write about too much.)
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): I'm going to refer to what you just said: We're both educators and populists! There's always going to be a need for educating people about technology and media. We can be those educators. And there has to be a person who supplies their communities with the media they are seeking. No matter how digital our culture goes, the physical item will always exist. And people will still need help accessing digital items. I often forget that I'm pretty adept with technology and think "yeah, everyone can do this" That's not the case at all. I see it as a teen librarian. I just helped a teen upload music to her iPod today. Most people would say "teens know everything about technology". What they should be saying is, "It depends on the person."
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): I agree that it depends on the individual, but it was staggering how much young people define themselves by technology. There was a really interesting Pew report on the Millennials recently, actually.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Can you tell me what it said? I try to keep in touch with a lot of this stuff but having a two year old son can distract you!
Nairarbil (Sean Riley): Twenty-four percent of Millennials defined themselves by technology. Doubling Gen X, of whom twelve percent did. Both were the number one response. Which really shows what a defining feature it is for them. I'll make sure a link finds its way into the transcript.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): I have about forty to sixty teens in my library everyday after school. They all have netbooks and that's what they're tuned into for at least two hours. Thanks for the link Nairabil!

Searcher (Justin Hoeke): It has been so great talking with all of you! I thank you so much Ellen for inviting me to this!
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Okay - any more questions? I really have enjoyed hearing from you — it really helps keep things in perspective.
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Why thank you. It has been a great experience for me talking with you as well and exploring World of Warcraft!
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Well! The next speaker in this series will be JP Porcaro Virtual Services Librarian at New Jersey City University, Frank J. Guarini Library (Academic Library).
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): GO JP GO!
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Speakers next year include Beth Galloway, Landon K Pirius and Gill Creel.
Dizwalt: Thanks for letting me sit in on this... it's been fun!
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): And it was nice to meet Diwalt too!
Dizwalt: You too.
Franticread (Ellen Forsyth): Thanks so much Justin for this. Anything else?
Searcher (Justin Hoeke): Thank you! And remember! Be there for your community!